| | |
| Line 272: | Line 272: |
| | == [[çok]] == | | == [[çok]] == |
| | Hi. Did you intend to empty [[çok]] so that it would be deleted? I was going to delete it, but I thought I should ask if that is what you intended. [[User:Stephen G. Brown|—Stephen]] <sup>([[User talk:Stephen G. Brown|Talk]])</sup> 01:25, 30 October 2013 (UTC) | | Hi. Did you intend to empty [[çok]] so that it would be deleted? I was going to delete it, but I thought I should ask if that is what you intended. [[User:Stephen G. Brown|—Stephen]] <sup>([[User talk:Stephen G. Brown|Talk]])</sup> 01:25, 30 October 2013 (UTC) |
| | + | |
| | + | Hi, no I just wanted to edit it, the deletion was not intentional. Thank you [[User:Etimo|Etimo]] ([[User talk:Etimo|talk]]) 01:33, 30 October 2013 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 01:33, 30 October 2013
term template[edit]
I notice you're using the {{term}} to add Albanian etymologies. No problem with that- but I also notice you're using "lang=la". "la" is the language code for Latin, which means that any link it creates to an existing page will take you to the Latin section. I think you want to use "lang=sq" instead (there are also codes specific to subcategories of Albanian- see WT:LANGLIST). Chuck Entz (talk) 07:22, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
Welcome[edit]
Welcome!
Hello, welcome to Wiktionary, and thank you for your contributions so far.
If you are unfamiliar with wiki editing, take a look at Help:How to edit a page. It is a concise list of technical guidelines to the wiki format we use here: how to, for example, make text boldfaced or create hyperlinks. Feel free to practice in the sandbox. If you would like a slower introduction we have a short tutorial.
These links may help you familiarize yourself with Wiktionary:
- Entry layout explained (ELE) is a detailed policy documenting how Wiktionary pages should be formatted. All entries should conform to this standard. The easiest way to start off is to copy the contents of an existing page for a similar word, and then adapt it to fit the entry you are creating.
- Our Criteria for inclusion (CFI) define exactly which words can be added to Wiktionary, though it may be a bit technical and longwinded. The most important part is that Wiktionary only accepts words that have been in somewhat widespread use over the course of at least a year, and citations that demonstrate usage can be asked for when there is doubt.
- If you already have some experience with editing our sister project Wikipedia, then you may find our guide to Wikipedia users useful.
- The FAQ aims to answer most of your remaining questions, and there are several help pages that you can browse for more information.
- A glossary of our technical jargon, and some hints for dealing with the more common communication issues.
- If you have anything to ask about or suggest, we have several discussion rooms. Feel free to ask any other editors in person if you have any problems or question, by posting a message on their talk page.
You are encouraged to add a BabelBox to your userpage. This shows which languages you know, so other editors know which languages you'll be working on, and what they can ask you for help with.
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wiktionarian! If you have any questions, bring them to the Wiktionary:Information desk, or ask me on my talk page. If you do so, please sign your posts with four tildes: ~~~~ which automatically produces your username and the current date and time.
Again, welcome!
Please also consider putting a BabelBox on your userpgae so we know what languages you're familiar with. Thanks --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 18:58, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
Glosses of Albanian terms[edit]
Hi Etimo, when you add English glosses to Albanian terms (or terms in any non-English language), please link the glosses individually. See here for an example. It should be obvious that Wiktionary doesn't have entries like [[arrow, bolt]] but rather two separate entries [[arrow]] and [[bolt]]. Thanks! —Angr 16:01, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
Hi, you're right, just noticed the mistake. Thanks for the tip!
Albanian etymologies[edit]
I noticed you copied a significant part of the etymology of borë from [1]. Do you have permission to directly copy from this source? DTLHS (talk) 19:45, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
I just copied the authors notes providing the quote, I thought their opinion could enrich the accuracy of the terms's etymo. No, I didn't ask them for permission. Should I delete them?(Etimo (talk) 19:56, 5 February 2013 (UTC))
- Generally we don't allow direct copying from any source. If you rewrote them slightly to be more in line with Wiktionary formatting they would be fine. Also consider adding a direct link to that source. DTLHS (talk) 20:11, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Language codes[edit]
Language codes are not to be used at random; they categorise entries and sq must be used for Albanian, en for English, and - when you are just comparing one term to another (more documentation can be found at {{etyl}}). Please see these changes as an example. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:13, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
I think I just overlooked it, guess I must pay more attention. Thanks for the tip! One question, I noticed that my posts are constantly being notified by some users because of an incorrect space layout (i.e. "spaces after header"), although I think I'm creating them after Wiki' standards used in all posts. Since I don't get where the problem lies, could you please tell me what I'm doing wrong? Thanks.Etimo (talk) 12:40, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
- I don't know what you mean. Could you give an example? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 14:37, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
For instance, in almost all my entries the user KassadBot writes (rm spaces after header), which I assume this means he's telling me to correct the space layout of my entries. If not, what does this mean? Etimo (talk) 14:46, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
- KassadBot is a robot, not a human user. You don't need to worry about that, it's just a minor layout detail which the robot will automatically correct. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 01:38, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Lol, all right then. Thanks! Etimo (talk) 11:15, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Please be more careful[edit]
Kalb and kalb are different. Please be much more careful when editing, because I find that I have to clean up after you. Make sure you spell things correctly (exaggeration has two g's) and just take more care in general. Thank you. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 20:02, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
Right, it just directed me automatically to Kalb therefore I thought it was not case sensitive. It's already happened before, there's still a lot of tricks I don't know about Wiki. I will double-check my contributions Etimo (talk) 20:16, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
- Thank you! —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 20:23, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
Do you know which lexicon that word is? To get an idea, have a look at Category:Albanian lexicons. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 03:02, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
- I don't think we have to list it under any particular class, it is just a common word, like shtrigë. Concerning the exact meaning, it is still unclear to me to which kind of vulture this word refers to, considering that the term has been originated to denote a mythical creature. Perhaps common vulture?? Etimo (talk) 14:14, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
-
- I mean "A contentious and loose-lipped woman." What's the lexicon for that sense? --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 15:42, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
Slangy I guess, same as "chatty, blabbermouth, gossipy" etc. Etimo (talk) 12:00, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Could anyone tell me how to differentiate an entry with a capital letter from a non-capitalised one? (e.g. I'd like to create "brenda" but I'm automatically redirected to "Brenda"). Thank you! Etimo (talk) 12:00, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
- Maybe make a red link out of it? (brenda) --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 13:22, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Hello, I'd like to bring to your attention an issue about which I seek your advise. My contributions to the Albanian language are beeing deleted by the user Torvalu4. I generally don't mind when this happens because this is Wiki's democratic way of sharing knowledge, the problem is that the new entries seem to be abitrary and without a clear etymological explanation. My contributions find support in the works of Demiraj, Pokorny, Jokl, Orel, Lubotsky (to mention a few), while Torvlu4 etymologies have a clear tendency to derive most of Albanian lexicon from Slavic or Latin or other sources (without giving a satisfactory explanation to it) as he carefully deletes alternative proposed etymologies (from the above mentioned authors or not), apparently leaving only the one who suits him/her. I don't want to think he/she's biased, or start a useless tag war which would take us nowhere, therefore I'd like to hear other people's opinion on the matter. Thank you Etimo (talk) 12:44, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
-
- Try posting this message on the talk page of an administrator in case they haven't taken notice of the current issue. --Robbie SWE (talk) 20:46, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
-
-
- This has been an ongoing problem, and I'm not really sure how to resolve it, because administrators like me don't have the expertise to judge who best to trust in each case. Etimo, can you please provide specific examples of etymologies that Torvalu4 removed? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:39, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your replies. I noticed that the etymos he deletes are especially those of words that find a connection or could stem from Paleo-Balcanic languages such as Thracian, Dacian, Illyrian, be of substratum nature parallel with Romanian or may derive from other Balkanic sources, as the common sense would suggest considering the origin of the language. Here are few examples: bollë, buall, bërtas (keep deleting it), daltë, krah (keep deleting it), preh, vapë, gati, gropë, frikë, kodër, urth (etymology of Demiraj, Lubotzky and de Vaan, deleted) among others, belonging to the basic lexicon which he arbitrarily describes as loanwords from other languages (especially Slavic, without explaining why), despite they have been phonetically and morphologically analysed and described as Albanian. I can't tell you which one to believe, or if it is the case here to go further into details, but I am an Albanian mother language speaker, therefore I have a clear and deep knowledge of the language and its etymologies. I don't know whether this user is also an Albanian speaker, although I highly doubt that. Etimo (talk) 01:11, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
- Hmm... many of these are about PIE reflexes, it appears, so I'll notify an admin with PIE knowledge. I personally can't judge on a page like urth or bërtas; Torvalu4 gives phonological reasons in his edit summaries, but I don't know how accurate they are. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 01:29, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
The thing is that ivy in Albanian is not "hurdhe" but just "urth", while there is "hurdhe" meaning pond and garlic (with methatesized form "hudher", here the Albanian academic dictionary http://www.fjalori.shkenca.org/). In Demiraj there is no trace of "hurdhe" as "ivy" but just "urth". I don't understand where he got that. Bërtas (Gheg bartit/as) is phonologically equal to Lithuanian bàrti-to scold, chide, and Old Church Slavic brati-fight. How does he explain the Albanian schwa 'ə' stemming from Slavic u?? Based on mere similarity? Etimo (talk) 01:41, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, Torvalu4 relies on similarities (morphological or semantic) quite often. He/she did this all the time with Romanian words, opting for an Albanian origin if they shared the slightest resemblance. When confronted (I noticed that many edits were incorrect, especially in his/her earliest contributions where Romanian words were spelled using accents which don't exist in Romanian), he/she refused to answer any question about their knowledge of the Romanian language. --Robbie SWE (talk) 18:57, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
Hi Etimo,
I have a question concerning the origin of the abovementioned word.
Isn't "dudë" from - or possibly cognate with - the Turkish dut ("mulberry")? It exists in Romanian as well in the form of dudă; from dud ("mulberry tree") + suffix -ă.
Best Regards, --Robbie SWE (talk) 11:37, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
The word is clearly Indoeuropean and could be a Paleo-Balkanic substratum word. This is not suprising as in Turkish there are a lot terms of Indoeuropean origin (both from old Anatolian and European languages). This might be one of those (few) words that entered in Turkish from Albanian (like: besë> T.besa, atë> T.ata, mbush, bosh> T.boš, mbyll, boll> T.bol, rraft, rrafsh > T.raf (slavic ravnij-plain) etc) or from another European source. Of course this is just my personal opinion. Etimo (talk) 12:14, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
- Hmm, I see what you mean. However, Turkish etymologists derive it from Persian توت (tut), which might be of Aramaic origin תותא (tuta), with the same meaning. It's kind of farfetched that the word would have passed from Albanian to Turkish and beyond, I'm afraid. --Robbie SWE (talk) 12:31, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
I understand what you mean, I think you're right on the Albanian-Turkish loan part (considering the spread of the word), although there is no doubt that the word is Indoeuropean (in Pokorny you find the same idea). I will edit the term again though. Thanks for your useful tip. Regards Etimo (talk) 12:54, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
Variants[edit]
The "Variants" heading is not one we use. Also we do not place such things where you place them.
Please use the (L3) heading "Alternative forms" which should go immediately after the language (L2) header "Albanian".
For more on format see WT:ELE. Thanks for your efforts. Happy editing! DCDuring TALK 22:46, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
- See Category:Entries_with_non-standard_headers, under "V" for the offending entries that you may have contributed and need fixing. I "fixed" a few but if I know no Albanian so I have have missed something. DCDuring TALK 22:50, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
Hi there, thanks for the tips. I'll go through my entries again and fix things after the template you just showed me. Best regards Etimo (talk) 23:03, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
Ancient Greek "λαλέω"[edit]
Hello,
do you think there's a cognate for the Ancient Greek word λαλέω (laléo, "to talk") in Albanian?
I also have another question concerning Albanian, if you form the imperative of "vazhdoj", can you say "vazhdo shruan" ('you shall continue writing'), and then, is it possible to say "vazhdo punojmë" ('we shall continue working')?
And another question, can "të" in Albanian be dropped, as example: "Nesë do thosha"?
Thank you for your answers!
Greetings HeliosX (talk) 20:49, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
Hi,
1) I think the Albanian cognate of the Greek verb is the ethnonym "Lalë", which describe the inhabitants of the Albanian region "Myseqe" and their dialect, as well as a relative or a kin (after a common Indoeuropean feature to name tribes after the verb "to speak, to utter").
2) The imperative "you shall continue writing" or "keep writing" is "vazhdo shkruaj" (in Standard Albanian), as in Albanian both verbs have to be translated in the same grammatical number. For this reason "we shall continue working" is translated "vazhdojmë të punojmë" (or more commonly "vazhdojmë punën" - we shall continue the work).
3) Yes it can. Mind that "të", in addition to having a function similar to English "to" (as in "Po shkoj të laj.. - I'm going to wash...), also means "to you", thus "Nëse do të thosha" also means "if I told you". Telling the difference (as well as choosing to write it or not) depends on the verb's aspect and on context.
Pleasure!
Regards Etimo (talk) 00:59, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
Is this really a proper nouns meaning "that who lives, thrives"? That looks more like etymology to me. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:53, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
Hi there,
What do you mean?? Etimo (talk) 10:55, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
- "that who lives, thrives" is not a proper noun - it looks like an explanation of what the name means. SemperBlotto (talk) 10:59, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
Every name I'm adding goes with the explanation of what the name means, in case it has one. The majority of Albanian names are compound of words which mean something specific, and since this is an etymological dictionary I judge it is the case to add such information. Unless I'm not doing it correctly after the template.......Etimo (talk) 11:05, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
- That sort of thing goes under the ===Etymology=== header. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:10, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
Hi! Etymology of theks that you created is being discussed here, so perhaps you could provide some input. Cheers. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 23:08, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
Song translation[edit]
Hello,
I've translated Selena Gomez' song "A Year Without Rain" into Albanian, but I'm not really sure whether it's right, could you help me?
- Një Vit Pa Shi:
- Më mund të ndjen
- Kur nga ti mendoj
- Me çdo frymë atë marr
- Çdo minutë
- Çfarëdo unë bej
- Botë ime është një vend bosh
- Si do brodha në një shkretetirë
- Për njëmijë ditë
- S'di nëse ky është një mirazh
- Por gjithmonë shoh fytyrë tënd, bebe
- Më merr me malli për të
- E s'mund shndërroj
- Një ditë pa të është si një vit pa shi
- Nevojit të në anë tim
- S'di si mbijetoj
- Yje degjen
- Zë tënd dëgjoj në mendje tim
- S'mund ti më degjon therras
- Zëmer ime bërtas si oqean ai than
- Më kap, unë bie
- Ky është si dheu thërrmon ndën këmbe e mi
- Nuk më do t'kursen
- Andej do t'është një monsunet
- Kur ti do t'rikkthen
- Më merr me malli për të
- E s'mund shndërroj
- Një ditë pa të është si një vit pa shi
- Nevojit të në anë tim
- S'di si mbijetoj
- Tani lejo këtë thatësirë gjen një fund
- Dhe prodho këtë shkretetirë lulëzon përsëri
- E të nevojit këtej
- S'mund sqaroj
- Por një ditë pa të
- Është si një vit pa shi
- Më merr me malli për të
- E s'mund shndërroj
- Një ditë pa të është si një vit pa shi
- Nevojit të në anë tim
- S'di si mbijetoj
I know this is very much text, but I'd just like to know, what could be bettered.
Greetings HeliosX (talk) 19:28, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
Hi,
Considering the fact that I don't know this song, the correction I made for you are purely grammatical according to standard Albanian, and do not consider dialectal forms or expressions. Corrections or adds are in brackets next to the word or phrase I changed. Cheers Etimo (talk) 23:52, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
- Më mund të ndjen ('Mund të më ndjesh' or 'Më ndjen')
- Kur nga ti mendoj ('Kur ty mendoj' or 'kur mendoj për ty')
- Me çdo frymë atë (që) marr
- Çdo minutë
- Çfarëdo unë bej ('Çfarëdo të bej' or 'Çfarëdo gjë unë bej')
- Botë (Bota) ime është një vend bosh
- Si do brodha në një shkretetirë ('Sikur kam bredhur nëpër shkretëtirë' or 'Sikur të kem bredhur nëpër shkretëtirë')
- Për njëmijë ditë
- S'di nëse ky është një mirazh
- Por gjithmonë shoh fytyrë(n) tënd(e), bebe (means 'child, little baby', find another word)
- Më merr me malli për të (Më merr malli për ty)
- E s'mund (të) shndërroj (I can't change/transform??)
- Një ditë pa të (ty) është si një vit pa shi
- Nevojit të në anë tim ('kam nevoj për ty në krahun tim')
- S'di si (të) mbijetoj
- Yje degjen ('Yjet digjen' or 'Yjet po digjen', present continuous)
- Zë(rin) tënd dëgjoj në mendje(n) tim(e)
- S'mund(esh) ti (të) më degjon (dëgjosh) (kur të) therras
- Zëmer (Zemra) ime bërtas (bërtet) si oqean(i) (që) than (thahet)
- Më kap, unë bie (or 'unë po bie', present continuous)
- Ky është (është sikur') dheu thërrmon (thërmohet) ndën (or 'nën', 'ndën' is dialectal) këmb(ët) e mi
- Nuk më do t'kursen ('Nuk do më shpëtosh', 'kursej' means mainly spare money or material goods)
- Andej do t'është një monsunet ('Do të fryj një monson kur ti do kthehesh tek mua', 'andej' means on that side, on that way)
- Kur ti do t'rikkthen
- Tani lejo këtë thatësirë (të) gjen (gjej) një fund (or,'Tani lejo që kësaj thatësire ti vij fundi')
- Dhe prodho këtë shkretetirë lulëzon përsëri ('dhe bëj këtë shkretëtirë të lulëzoj përsëri')
- E të nevojit këtej
- S'mund (të) sqaroj
- Por një ditë pa të (ty)
- Është si një vit pa shi
Hi. I just wanted to point out that you emptied përrua today. I assume that you did not intend to do it. The page has now been restored. —Stephen (Talk) 11:52, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi, thank you for the reminder. I was trying to edit only the Etymology section and Alternative forms. How should I proceed in order not to empty the entire page? thanks Etimo (talk) 12:03, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
- I don't understand what you are doing wrong. If you only want to edit the Etymology, you will see a blue [edit] to the right of the title Etymology. Click on that [edit] button and only the Etymology section will be opened. Make a change that you want. For example, add the word TESTING somewhere in the etymology. Then down at the bottom of your screen, click on SHOW PREVIEW. Then you should see the etymology along with the word TESTING that you added. Now, if you click SAVE at the bottom of your screen, it will save the etymology section with the word TESTING that you added.
- Then, you can click on the [edit] button after the title Etymology again and removed the word TESTING, then click on PREVIEW, then SAVE, and your edit will be removed, but the etymology will still be there. Or you can click on the HISTORY tab at the top of your screen, then click on the version of the page that precedes your last edit, open it and save it ... that restores the previous version of the page. Or, you can click on the HISTORY tab at the top of your screen, and you should be able to see the buttons [rollback 1 edit] or [undo] at the end of the line where you edited the page. You can click on [rollback 1 edit] or [undo] to revert your edit to the previous version. —Stephen (Talk) 12:26, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
After some attempts with the same results as before, it finally worked. I still haven't figured out where the problem lies. I'm sure it could come up again. Thanks for your kind support Etimo (talk) 12:54, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
Reference Templates, etc.[edit]
You could inquire Pereru (talk • contribs) about what he did with the Latvian language when it comes to etymologies (and possibly Angr (talk • contribs) when it comes to diminutive forms of nouns, too.) --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 19:28, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I don't know if I understand you right, are you talking about the templates? Because I'm following the standard template, please point out possible mistakes I'm doing..thanks! Etimo (talk) 18:29, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
- You could alsi learn about the Lua programming code at any time. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 18:32, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
- I have created
{{R:sq:Orel:2000}}. You can use it like this. --Vahag (talk) 21:15, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
Formatting[edit]
Please note the following changes. el is for Modern Greek; you meant Ancient Greek there, grc. You do not to put [[Category:Albanian nouns]], {{sq-noun}} already does that. --Vahag (talk) 21:19, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
Moreover, {{recons}} should not be used, it is deprecated; use {{term}} and don't forget to put the glosses inside {{term}} as the third parameter. Armenian is written in the Armenian script. If you type {{term|tr=vaṙim|lang=hy}}, I will find it and provide the script. --Vahag (talk) 21:25, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
- Hi, thanks for your kind instructions, I'll stick to them. One question: if I don't find a word written in its own writing system, should I just put the transliteration, and the system will automatically provide the correct writing, or shouldn't I put the term at all? Thanks Etimo (talk) 08:24, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
-
- You should just put the transliteration like this {{term|tr=vaṙim|lang=hy}}. The system will not provide the correct writing but it will place the page into Category:Armenian terms needing native script. Then someone like me will find it and provide script. --Vahag (talk) 08:38, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi. Did you intend to empty çok so that it would be deleted? I was going to delete it, but I thought I should ask if that is what you intended. —Stephen (Talk) 01:25, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi, no I just wanted to edit it, the deletion was not intentional. Thank you Etimo (talk) 01:33, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
