| User talk:Pengo Oct 3rd 2013, 02:47, by Pengo | | | | Line 174: | Line 174: | | | | | | | | I am also trying to do lists of specific epithets that are missing in wiktionary entries. See [[:Category:Species entry using missing Translingual specific epithet]] and [[:Category:Species entry using missing Latin specific epithet]]. Your listings, as valuable as they are, overwhelmed me. [[User: DCDuring |DCDuring]] <small >[[User talk: DCDuring|TALK]]</small > 23:22, 2 October 2013 (UTC) | | I am also trying to do lists of specific epithets that are missing in wiktionary entries. See [[:Category:Species entry using missing Translingual specific epithet]] and [[:Category:Species entry using missing Latin specific epithet]]. Your listings, as valuable as they are, overwhelmed me. [[User: DCDuring |DCDuring]] <small >[[User talk: DCDuring|TALK]]</small > 23:22, 2 October 2013 (UTC) | | | + | | | | + | :Nice one. My lists need a heap of tidying up and maintenance, which I haven't been able to dedicate time to for a while. If you scroll down to the red links, [[User:Pengo/Latin/Most Common Epithets 1#1900:_striolata_.2880.29|User:Pengo/Latin/Most Common Epithets 1]] still contains the most "important" missing epithets, if you're interested. I never finished putting together a list of the most searched for species though. [[User:Pengo|Pengo]] ([[User talk:Pengo|talk]]) 02:47, 3 October 2013 (UTC) |
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We hope you enjoy editing Wiktionary and being a Wiktionarian. --Connel MacKenzie 19:16, 1 December 2006 (UTC) Ummm... When you say "Interlingua", do you mean "Translingual"? Interlingua is a constructed language like Esperanto; Translingual means "used in many languages". --EncycloPetey 03:11, 6 September 2011 (UTC) - Oops you're right. I must have seen it on some entries and gotten mixed up. Pengo 03:14, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
I also notice that you're not grouping forms of the same word, so that niger, nigra, and nigrum are listed separately, as are africanus and africana or gracilis and gracile. I wonder if it would be better to organize the list to group these, since (1) it will make entry creation simpler for people using the list, and (2) epithets can change from one form to another when new combinations result from synonymy or splitting (if the new genus is of a different grammatical gender). --EncycloPetey 03:21, 6 September 2011 (UTC) - Hmm.. Might be tricky. I'll see what I can do. --Pengo 03:49, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
- Hi there. I've had a go at User:Pengo/Latin/Top 100. You might like to rebuild it sometime (ideally without the colours!). Cheers. SemperBlotto 17:23, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
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- Thanks so much! Pengo 04:44, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Hi there. I think that this must be correct, but there is just the outside chance that it is related to apicula (a little bee). The images that I have found look more like hats than bees though. Cheers. SemperBlotto 16:42, 21 December 2011 (UTC) - Seems right from my evidence: "Abrupt, short point". Full reply on your talk. Pengo 20:24, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
We have a standard Latin entry for this (see luctuosus), but I don't see a zoological meaning. (ditto plagiata) By the way:- 1) I am planning on continuing this project until at least the end of the year, but sometime I am going back to work on Italian words. 2) I am adding epithets based on surnames as Translingual rather than Latin terms. You can find them at Category:Translingual adjectives. Most of them do not specify a particular naturalist - you might be able to improve those that don't. Cheers SemperBlotto 12:13, 23 December 2011 (UTC) - Hi SemperBlotto!
- Thanks for all your work! Glad you're still going for a while longer. I've been working on writing up a piece about the lists on WikiProject Tree of Life to try to attract some editors to this project. Also I've been slowly increasing my confidence in editing here to try adding to the new entries too, or to try create easier entries (like compound words similar to existing entries).
- Yep, I noticed the Transligual entries. Makes sense. It could be argued that the other entries that are used "exclusively as a taxonomic epithet" could be considered translingual as well. Though in the end I'm not too concerned one way or the other. I know I've argued about the translingual vs Latin thing before, but my main worry has been more about editors being discouraged from creating new entries by the lack of guidelines on which heading to choose rather than which heading gets used over the other.
- For luctuosus, the only fitting common name I could find was that of the Widow Skimmer (Libellula luctuosa), which has black bands on its wings that might look like the black lace veil of someone in mourning. Similarly, the Black-and-white Seedeater could be construed to be wearing mourning dress, as could the White-flanked Antwren|. The frog Bokermannohyla luctuosa looks like it's depressed here. I suspect that facial expression isn't uncommon for frogs, but then there's at least three luctuosa frog species. So I guess the taxonomic meaning is an anthropomorphic version of the Latin meaning, something like "appearing to be in mourning dress" or "appearing to be sad".
- Plagiata/plagiatus I'm not sure about. It might relate to "plagiarism" (which seems to be the precise meaning in Italian at least). Which would make me think it would be used for "false" species (though I can find no evidence of the word "false" specifically being used in association with any plagiata species). Still, perhaps it's used for species which look like better known ones, but that's only purely a guess. Pengo 00:58, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
This one if from the current edition of Nature, rather than your lists. It is from a nasty bacterium. I understand the "intestinalis" part, but what has it got to do with the hyoid bone? SemperBlotto 17:40, 24 December 2011 (UTC) - My guess would be it's horseshoe shaped, but my guess would be wrong.
- I found a paper where they describe this one, and it says Hyos = pig (from Greek), intestinalis = associated with intestines. Hyosintestinalis = associated with pig intestines. The paper is here: first page, half way down right column (starting with "Streptoccus intestinalis sp. nov.")
- Merry Christmas Pengo 22:06, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
- Well done. Buon natale. No more questions till after Christmas. SemperBlotto 22:17, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
I can't think of a sensible definition of this. Any ideas? SemperBlotto 19:52, 27 December 2011 (UTC) p.s. not yet in your lists! - Looks like you found the meaning already. "Named for the gundi rodent," or "gundi (posessive)"? or something, I guess? Gundi is from "dialectal Arabic" according to random house/dictionary.com. I don't know if gondi/gondii is just a different transliteration. Pengo 21:43, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
A resource![edit] Have you seen [1]? I found it when looking for the meaning of thetaiotaomicron. SemperBlotto 17:05, 28 December 2011 (UTC) - Wow, that's quite a bizarre collection (especially the "puns"). The site should help with the stranger entries I hope. My favourite so far: "Erythroneura ix Myers (leafhopper) This was Myers' 9th species of Erythroneura." Pengo 17:38, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
I have defined this as "having large flowers". But could it mean having large thorns (Greek akanthus as in pyracanthus)? SemperBlotto 10:12, 29 December 2011 (UTC) - I can't find anything definitive, so going off Google image search the pictures of macrantha look like large flowers, while micrantha shows small flowers (though you've defined it as small anthers? Which could be right too?). If acantha is for thorns, I'm guessing large thorns would be macracantha (27) or gigacantha (2) or megacantha (9) or macroacantha (3). See also polyantha. Pengo 22:49, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
Anatomical Latin[edit] Hi there. Just a note to say that all "Latin" terms in otherwise English texts are not all botanical or zoological. See weitbrechti and ligamentosus as examples. Cheers. SemperBlotto 08:19, 9 January 2012 (UTC) I have taken the liberty of adding this one, even though it gets a single hit, because the epithetical person was a distant relative of mine (same surname). He wrote a couple of very good books on entomology for young people (I'm waiting for a cheap version to appear on Amazon). I wonder why they used the -iella suffix instead of just -i or -ii? SemperBlotto 11:09, 23 January 2012 (UTC) p.s. His son (Henry Valentine Knaggs) was more interesting (I have one of his books) - Very cool :) I completely don't understand the different suffixes used in Latin or in these epithets except for the conventions that I think I've learned working on this. Looks like -iella is pretty popular within the Caryocolum genus though Pengo 12:01, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Catalogue of Life[edit] Hi there. I would like to use this source to get a list of all phyla, classes etc (probably not much further down) to see which ones we haven't got. But the "Browse taxonomic classification" screen won't let me copy/paste the drop-down lists. Is there a better way that copy/pasting each entry? SemperBlotto 17:11, 23 January 2012 (UTC) - It's a bit tricky. The queries get complex when traversing taxonomic levels and I haven't abstracted that process (yet). Can we just copy from WikiSpecies? Added bonus of already being wikified. E.g. Phyla from wikispecies:Animalia:
Acanthocephala - Annelida - Arthropoda - Brachiopoda - Bryozoa - Chaetognatha - Chordata - Cnidaria - Ctenophora - Cycliophora - Dicyemida - Echinodermata - Echiura - Entoprocta - Gastrotricha - Gnathostomulida - Hemichordata - Kinorhyncha - Loricifera - Micrognathozoa - Mollusca - Monoblastozoa - Myxozoa - Myzostomida - Nematoda - Nematomorpha - Nemertea - Onychophora - Orthonectida - Phoronida - Placozoa - Platyhelminthes - Porifera - Priapulida - Rotifera - Sipuncula - Tardigrada - Xenacoelomorpha - If that doesn't work, let me know and I'll give it a go. I'm actually starting a new job today so won't be able to dedicate as much time to this, but I want to at least finish making a new list of epithets (and another for genre). (todo list: I still haven't included synonyms, and I want to combine -a -um -us etc entries this time, etc). I gotta run. Cheers Pengo 19:54, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
I notice that, in your popular primates section, you do not include pongo itself. We only have other language definitions. What should we actually do for cases of species with the name X x (Ratus ratus and the like)? They seem to be the archetype of the genus - the rattiest rat, most orangutang-like orangutang etc. SemperBlotto 08:32, 26 January 2012 (UTC) - p.s. I'm wondering why the orchid Bulbophyllum paniscus is a small chimpanzee. SemperBlotto 09:57, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- p.p.s. And I'm wondering why the insects Melambrotus papio and Nemopterella papio are baboon-like. SemperBlotto 10:28, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- p.p.p.s. Many of the red links in your Tetrapod section are due to piping one word to another. (e.g. Aves => Bird) SemperBlotto 10:49, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- p.p.p.p.s Do you think that my assumption in apella is correct? (no more questions for a while, I'll do something else) SemperBlotto 12:03, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
- Hi SemperBlotto! Always good to hear from you.
- All I know about Ratus ratus etc is they're called tautonyms. According to w:List of tautonyms, exact tauntonyms only exist in zoology but not botany. I don't think tautonyms have a special significance, though often they seem to (like Ratus ratus and Gorilla gorilla). Might be nice to start a category for them, but don't think there's anything else special that needs to be done.
- Simia capuchin is a type species which I found on w:Capuchin monkey, which is how it got on the list even though COL doesn't have it listed.
- I only left out pongo because it only seems to be used as a genus and not an epithet (though looking now it gets used as an epithet in Tanais pongo -- a crustacean). I've been systematically ignoring the genera so far, but want to get to them at some point. I think they could be created in some sort of automated fashion (other than the etymology), and I haven't gotten around to thinking about that too hard as yet. But please feel free to create pages for the genus or whatever else I haven't explicitly linked.
- I have no idea why paniscus is used for both chimps and orchids. Maybe the orchid is named for Pangkal Pinang (that's a stab in the dark). Looks like it's had a few different names though [2]. Looks like there's a few other similarly named orchids (Bulbophyllum pan, B. pandanetorum B. pandurella B. pantoblepharon). Bulbophyllum is a huge genus. No idea really, sorry.
- Melambrotus papio.. I dunno.. maybe related to Papilio? Or, as it is an owlfly, which have "with large bulging eyes". Maybe its eyes are red and resemble a baboon's butt? I dunno. I'll have another look at these tomorrow. ... Nemopterella papio is apparently published in "Neuroptera-Planipennia. The Lace-wings of Southern Africa. 6. Family Nemopteridae. Pp. 290-501 in South African Animal Life, B. Hanström, P. Brinck and G. Rudebec, eds. Vol. 13. Swedish Natural Science Research Council, Stockholm." So if you wanted to track that down it might have the answer :)
- Oops didn't notice the pipes when I copy-pasted that Tetrapod bit. I've unpiped it now and kept both halves.
- "apella = small ape" seems reasonable but would be good to confirm it somewhere. (Can't find anything on this but I've added the ancient greek meaning)
- Sorry couldn't be more helpful. I might try asking on some forums at some point
Pengo 20:12, 26 January 2012 (UTC) I don't think that binomial species names should be italicized in Latin entries. Do you know whether the standard in taxonomy is to italicize them in Latin species descriptions? I think that only if such is the standard should they be capitalized. OTOH, even if the standard is not for such italicization in Latin, it is at least arguable that the Translingual entries for species names should be. I have always focused on the practice of italicization of species names in English and do not know whether their italicization is the practice in all languages or all languages that have a Roman alphabet. Do you? DCDuring TALK 18:47, 7 February 2012 (UTC) - I know in English it's standard to italicize them everywhere. I don't know if there's any special standard for dictionary entries, and I did notice others don't use italics either on Wiktionary, so I haven't been 100%. But the only time I know that you don't usually italicize scientific names (Genera, binomial, or trinomial) is on a typewriter, in which case you underline them instead. I have no clue about other languages though, so let's have a look.
- I tried w:Lion (Panthera leo) for my sample set because it's probably the most popular species article on Wikipedia and I figured it would have a lot of translations. I clicked through to all the various non-Roman-script languages to see what was used on different Wikipedias. These are my results:
- Italics: kbd, am, ab, ar, av, ba, zh-min-nan, be, be-x-old, bg, bxr, cv, cs, ru, cu, el, jp, he (18 languages)
- No italics: arc, ka (2 languages)
- It's a pretty quick survey and it's not the most definitive thing ever, but it seems pretty likely that italics are generally used across almost all languages. I didn't count languages where the scientific name appeared in the taxobox or references but never in main body of text (though I only noticed one other example of non-italics in a taxobox, and references were generally italicized too—although possibly due to copy-pasting). The ignored languages (due to not using it in the text) were: bn, bo, pnb, ps, ta, hy, hi, gu, got, fa, ha. The Latin article (la) also used italics.
- So at this point I reckon they should probably be italicized unless there's a special objection to do with dictionary formatting. Pengo 07:38, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for doing the research. At least now we know of the apparent validity of italicization in many languages. I still don't see why they should be italicized in Latin entries under the logic (admittedly a prescriptive consideration) we have that such binomials are grammatically Latin terms. I can't find use of "Panthera leo" in texts that reflect usage after the modern standardization of taxonomic names. Linnaeus didn't italicize, of course. DCDuring TALK 15:49, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
- BTW, because of your research, this discussion might be useful in Category talk:Taxonomic names or a Wiktionary page. DCDuring TALK 15:52, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
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- Seems like something for the beer parlour. In the end I don't really know if they should be considered translingual "descendants" or Latin "derived terms", or what. Anyway a wider discussion would be helpful. Pengo 04:14, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Can't figure this one. Any ideas? SemperBlotto (talk) 07:32, 12 October 2012 (UTC) - Great to see you still making progress! Spathifer seems to mean spade-bearing or spatula-bearing or "broad two-edged sword" bearing. "Spathe" might also be from Greek origin, the word σπάθη, which refers to "a flat blade used by weavers for striking the threads of the woof home, so as to make the web close". Or spathe of a plant. I got these answers by asking on Reddit, see all the responses: [3]. Pengo (talk) 19:53, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
Looks like it ought to refer to woody stars, but Plutella xylostella is named the diamondback moth. Any ideas? SemperBlotto (talk) 10:39, 19 October 2012 (UTC) New list of wanted taxa[edit] See User:DCDuring/MissingTaxa. It is based on two or more occurrences of a taxon enclosed in {{taxlink}}. It is just another listing to consider. I will update it from time to time, now that I know how. I am also trying to do lists of specific epithets that are missing in wiktionary entries. See Category:Species entry using missing Translingual specific epithet and Category:Species entry using missing Latin specific epithet. Your listings, as valuable as they are, overwhelmed me. DCDuring TALK 23:22, 2 October 2013 (UTC) - Nice one. My lists need a heap of tidying up and maintenance, which I haven't been able to dedicate time to for a while. If you scroll down to the red links, User:Pengo/Latin/Most Common Epithets 1 still contains the most "important" missing epithets, if you're interested. I never finished putting together a list of the most searched for species though. Pengo (talk) 02:47, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
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