Tuesday, April 30, 2013

Wiktionary - Recent changes [en]: User talk:I'm so meta even this acronym

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User talk:I'm so meta even this acronym
May 1st 2013, 00:02

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::As far as I can tell, [[δικαιωσύνη]] (the lemma form of [[δικαιωσύνην]]) is a modern Greek word, not an ancient one. It might possibly be medieval, but I have an utter paucity of sources on medieval Greek. You might want to ask [[User:Flyax|Flyax]] about it, as he is better versed in both periods than anyone else here, and would likely have more insight than anyone else. -[[User:Atelaes|Atelaes]] <small>[[User talk:Atelaes|λάλει ἐμοί]]</small> 22:56, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

  

::As far as I can tell, [[δικαιωσύνη]] (the lemma form of [[δικαιωσύνην]]) is a modern Greek word, not an ancient one. It might possibly be medieval, but I have an utter paucity of sources on medieval Greek. You might want to ask [[User:Flyax|Flyax]] about it, as he is better versed in both periods than anyone else here, and would likely have more insight than anyone else. -[[User:Atelaes|Atelaes]] <small>[[User talk:Atelaes|λάλει ἐμοί]]</small> 22:56, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
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::: Thanks for the suggestion; I've [http://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AFlyax&diff=20326048&oldid=20285219 done] just that. [[User:I&#39;m so meta even this acronym|I&#39;m so meta even this acronym]] ([[User talk:I&#39;m so meta even this acronym|talk]]) 00:02, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 00:02, 1 May 2013

Contents

Not sure if it would meet our criteria for inclusion. However, see w:Allegory of the Cave for background. SemperBlotto (talk) 17:11, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I figured it was an allusion to Plato's Allegory of the Cave. What are your criteria for inclusion? I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 21:21, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
See Wiktionary:Criteria for inclusion. SemperBlotto (talk) 21:23, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
That looks like a lot to take in. I'll get back to you once I've had time to look it over. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 21:29, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Nice username! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 13:22, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, but I can't take the credit for it; I took it from xkcd 917. I would have taken the handle User:ISMETA, but someone somewhere'd already taken User:Ismeta, so the system wouldn't let me. :-( I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 23:07, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
Having read every xkcd comic, including the hidden ones, I certainly recognized the reference. In this case, I find it somewhat humorous on another level, because I'm willing to bet that if you stick around, somebody will confuse us, or even accuse me of sockpuppeteering. Anyway, it's great to have you here! --Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 02:08, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Probably just running together "very same" (meaning something like "exact") ? SemperBlotto (talk) 15:39, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, yes; that makes a lot of sense. I took it to mean something like "true", formed from veri- (as in "verity" and "verisimilitude") + -some (as in "worrisome" and "flavoursome"), but I think you may be right that it's just "verisame" with a typo; Buckminster Fuller uses "verisame" (see Citations:verisame), which supports your interpretation. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 16:00, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

You are inventing Classical pronunciations for a word that did not exist in Classical Latin. If you do this, you need to mark the pronunciations as modern pronunciations based on Classical principles. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:31, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

OK, sorry. How do I do that? Does it have a different New Latin pronunciation? I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 21:32, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
That's the problem. New Latin pronunciation differs enormously by country. I usually don't add pronunciations to New Latin terms because of that. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:34, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Hmm. How about a qualifier like "(pseudo-Classical)"? I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 21:46, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Like this? I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 22:09, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Possibly. It ought to use the {{a|}} template though, for formatting purposes. However, I'm not sure that "pseudo-Classical" will be clear enought for even the casual reader. --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:41, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
OK. I've gone with "Classicistic" instead. Is that better? I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 12:38, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for starting the discussion. I'm curious about the outcome. Longtrend (talk) 19:34, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

My pleasure; I'm curious, too. I'm surprised this sort of issue hasn't come up before. CodeCat has pinpointed the issue, I think. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 20:51, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Cool username. -- Cirt (talk) 04:49, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. :-) I got it from this. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 18:22, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
Sweet, sweet. -- Cirt (talk) 05:17, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi, really recently there was a discussion on how to treat romaji entries, and basically we decided to treat it as a soft link. All the information that would go on a romaji entry instead only goes on kana entries, which usually in turn link to kanji entries. I saw your edits on hanshinron (which were exactly the way to do it until a week ago, so no criticism there) and in the new format it would be like this:

    ==Japanese==    ===Romanization===  {{ja-romaji|hira=はんしんろん}}

All the information that was on the previous romaji entry can be merged with the matching hiragana entry. Thanks for your help :) --Haplology (talk) 16:49, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

OK. Just to make sure I understand you, does that mean that ローマ字 entries don't get definition lines at all? I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 17:18, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
They do get definition lines, but the lines are produced by {{ja-romaji}} and are basically soft redirects. Take a look for yourself. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 01:29, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
What he/she said. There was a debate over having complete definitions, abbreviated definitions, or none at all, but we went for option C, no definitions. The template produces a simple link to はんしんろん in this case. --Haplology (talk) 02:14, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Ah, 分かります。 :-) How elegantly parsimonious. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 16:18, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

We usually put quotes that use inflected forms on the entry for the lemma form. Thanks —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:50, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Forgive my boldness, but I've reverted your removal of the quotation. That entry's such a stubby thing that, surely, the quotation does some good by adding information, and at the very least certainly does no harm; also, n.b. that I'd also already added the quotation to the entry for the lemma at dioecēsis. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 12:35, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
It's supposed to be stubby. The whole point of dioecesim is to give the bare minimum of information to clothe what is essentially a soft redirect to dioecesis, where the definitions ought to be. I agree that it probably does no harm, but keeping entries standardised is important in general around here. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:30, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
Do you believe that all soft redirects should be stripped of quotations? I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 21:27, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
You might be able to dredge up exceptions, but in general, yes. Not Wiktionary policy or anything, just personal belief. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 00:46, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
Hmm. In my opinion, it can at times be helpful to include quotations in entries for inflected forms; for example, would it not be helpful if the four definitions in the Latin entry for aulae were furnished with citations, demonstrating to the curious user the differences in usage between the genitive- and dative-singular and nominative- and vocative-plural forms? (I know this argument doesn't really apply to the particular case of dioecēsim, but it had a bearing on the general principle you advocate, I should think.) I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 14:19, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
No, I don't think that would be helpful, because most users of our Latin entries know how the cases work already, and those who don't won't learn anything from the examples. (PS: It reduces template overhead if you just write ''dioecēsim'' instead of using {{term}} when you're not actually linking to a page. Not something that really matters much, but being details-oriented is part of my nature.) —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 22:33, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
I must, respectfully, disagree with you; the "feel" of the usage of grammatical forms is, in my experience, learnt gradually — in part from the internalisation of grammatical descriptions, and in part from direct familiarity with examples of those grammatical forms. As for using and not using {{term}}, I've found that not using it (or using it without the appropriate sc= or lang= parameter) can lead to display problems; moreover, it had only been out of laziness that I didn't use it consistently. Be that as it may, I was unaware of the template-overhead problem, and in the light of that new knowledge, I shall in future use simple italics or other methods of presentation when I mention terms (without linking) in discussions, where assuring correct display is not as important as it is in entries. Is that OK? I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 23:42, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
I can't remember how I learned the cases; it feels as if I always could feel the difference, although obviously that is far from the truth. I will have to say that we remain in disagreement, but this is such a pitifully unimportant issue that I'm not going to revert your revert for the sake of my views. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 00:00, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
I'm glad that, even if we remain in disagreement, we're civil and amicable about it. :-) I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 16:00, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Could you clarify what sort of etymological info you're looking for? -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 01:22, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Hello, Atelaes. I'm sorry to have wasted your time with my mistake; I meant to add {{rfp|lang=grc}}, like this. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 16:10, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
Ah, that makes more sense. No worries.  :) -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 22:45, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Could I ask where the quote is from? I can't find evidence of this word anywhere. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 17:08, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

It's from an early–eighteenth-century introductory text of Biblical exposition by Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz. Is that any help? I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 16:18, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
As far as I can tell, δικαιωσύνη (the lemma form of δικαιωσύνην) is a modern Greek word, not an ancient one. It might possibly be medieval, but I have an utter paucity of sources on medieval Greek. You might want to ask Flyax about it, as he is better versed in both periods than anyone else here, and would likely have more insight than anyone else. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 22:56, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestion; I've done just that. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 00:02, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
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