| Wiktionary:Information desk Jun 1st 2012, 05:04 einander#German: | ← Older revision | Revision as of 05:04, 1 June 2012 | | Line 1,034: | Line 1,034: | | | ::::::: Yet, [[one another]] and [[everybody]] are English. Meanwhile, ''einer den anderen'' could just as well be parsed as "one '''to''' the other'''s'''" rather than "one another". | | ::::::: Yet, [[one another]] and [[everybody]] are English. Meanwhile, ''einer den anderen'' could just as well be parsed as "one '''to''' the other'''s'''" rather than "one another". | | | ::::::: I'm not sure what you mean by "''the version that produced [[einander]]''"; do you have additional etymological information? The word can be used in plural dative contexts, and could be replaced with the expanded version as a plural dative phrase. As a better example that's clearly dative (my above example using {{term|lang=de|ansprechen}} is face-palmingly accusative), {{google|type=books|"gab einander die Hand"}} and {{google|type=books|"gab einer den anderen die Hand"}} both generate valid examples of usage, albeit not many, with the latter grammatically the plural dative for "''den anderen''". -- [[User:Eirikr|Eiríkr Útlendi]] │ <small style="position: relative; top: -3px;">''[[User talk:Eirikr|Tala við mig]]''</small> 15:47, 31 May 2012 (UTC) | | ::::::: I'm not sure what you mean by "''the version that produced [[einander]]''"; do you have additional etymological information? The word can be used in plural dative contexts, and could be replaced with the expanded version as a plural dative phrase. As a better example that's clearly dative (my above example using {{term|lang=de|ansprechen}} is face-palmingly accusative), {{google|type=books|"gab einander die Hand"}} and {{google|type=books|"gab einer den anderen die Hand"}} both generate valid examples of usage, albeit not many, with the latter grammatically the plural dative for "''den anderen''". -- [[User:Eirikr|Eiríkr Útlendi]] │ <small style="position: relative; top: -3px;">''[[User talk:Eirikr|Tala við mig]]''</small> 15:47, 31 May 2012 (UTC) | | | + | | | | + | :::::::::By "''the version that produced [[einander]]''", I mean the singular '''den anderen''', not the plural '''den anderen''', because only the singular '''den anderen''' forms part of [[einander]]. The plural version of '''den anderen''' is not the ander of [[einander]]. | | | + | ::::::::I only used English [[one another]] because it was easiest. [[einander]] works just as well, as would Russian [[друг друга]], Hungarian [[egymás]], Italian [[l'un l'altro]], Macedonian [[еден на друг]], Portuguese [[um ao outro]], or Romanian [[unul pe altul]]. In each case, there are two terms, and both are singular only, although the phrases can be used in plural-like contexts. | | | + | ::::::::The word CANNOT be used in plural dative contexts if, by that, you mean something like "mit einander sprechen" where [[einander]] would have one or both terms (eine, andere) in the plural. Both terms are always in the singular, whether dative or accusative. There is no single word that means "some to others" (some being the plural of one, and others the plural of another), nor of "one to others". If you really want to make one of the terms plural, then you can't use "one another" (or einander), you have to use more words and say something like "they were speaking each to all the others", or "they were speaking each to some of the others". | | | + | ::::::::In discussing [[einander]] and the longer phrase that it comes from, "einer den/dem anderen", I am ONLY talking about the forms of "einer den/dem anderen" that became [[einander]]. I am not at any point talking about "einer den anderen" where anderen is a plural, because the phrase with a plural term did not become [[einander]] and it is not part of my discussion. I am only talking about [[einander]] and the longer form of it from which it came, which have two terms that are singular only. If you have to make one of the terms plural, then you have to use a form of einer den anderen, not [[einander]], which, like [[one another]], [[друг друга]], [[egymás]], [[l'un l'altro]], [[еден на друг]], [[um ao outro]], and [[unul pe altul]], contains only singular terms. | | | + | ::::::::Again, I am not talking about a form of einer den anderen that includes a plural, because that is not like [[einander]] and is not part of the etymology of [[einander]]. | | | + | ::::::::Now, I have explained this to the very best of my ability. If you still disagree, then it will be your lot to live with that. I'm not going to elucidate any further. I thought the first explanation I made above, beginning with "It can be any gender, as the case may be", was perfectly clear, and if you still don't see what I mean, then it means we simply cannot communicate well enough, for whatever reason, for me to be able to pass along this information in an understandable fashion, so I am not going to try. [[User:Stephen G. Brown|—Stephen]] <sup>([[User talk:Stephen G. Brown|Talk]])</sup> 05:03, 1 June 2012 (UTC) | | |
