| | '''Kept'''. (Closing despite my own participation because it seems just about everyone has participated in the discussion, and the outcome is not in doubt). [[User:BD2412|<font style="background:lightgreen">''bd2412''</font>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 03:11, 2 January 2013 (UTC) | | '''Kept'''. (Closing despite my own participation because it seems just about everyone has participated in the discussion, and the outcome is not in doubt). [[User:BD2412|<font style="background:lightgreen">''bd2412''</font>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 03:11, 2 January 2013 (UTC) |
| | ::::When there is this kind of controversy, it is a good idea to have real-world citations. If one is trying to illustrate a grammatical point in a usage example a the point can be lost in the extraneous parts of a real citation. [[User: DCDuring |DCDuring]] <small >[[User talk: DCDuring|TALK]]</small > 00:11, 10 November 2012 (UTC) | | ::::When there is this kind of controversy, it is a good idea to have real-world citations. If one is trying to illustrate a grammatical point in a usage example a the point can be lost in the extraneous parts of a real citation. [[User: DCDuring |DCDuring]] <small >[[User talk: DCDuring|TALK]]</small > 00:11, 10 November 2012 (UTC) |
| | :::@Chuck and Biblbroks: I think that the literal sense, the figurative "opposite" sense, and the figurative "change" sense each can apply to either a state or a movement. I think I could demonstrate this if I had to. That is why I said I thought we would need a static and dynamic sense for each of the senses as I have differentiated them, which would yield six senses, which certainly is excessive. It is, after all, not obvious that we should even have three. The use of the word "or" in the definitions twice and 'especially' once for "complete opposite" in the figurative sense should address the sense proliferation concern. [[User: DCDuring |DCDuring]] <small >[[User talk: DCDuring|TALK]]</small > 00:11, 10 November 2012 (UTC) | | :::@Chuck and Biblbroks: I think that the literal sense, the figurative "opposite" sense, and the figurative "change" sense each can apply to either a state or a movement. I think I could demonstrate this if I had to. That is why I said I thought we would need a static and dynamic sense for each of the senses as I have differentiated them, which would yield six senses, which certainly is excessive. It is, after all, not obvious that we should even have three. The use of the word "or" in the definitions twice and 'especially' once for "complete opposite" in the figurative sense should address the sense proliferation concern. [[User: DCDuring |DCDuring]] <small >[[User talk: DCDuring|TALK]]</small > 00:11, 10 November 2012 (UTC) |
