Wealth Maker: Wiktionary - Recent changes [en]: User talk:Liliana-60

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User talk:Liliana-60

Mar 5th 2013, 20:08

Revision as of 15:50, 17 February 2013 (edit) Metaknowledge (Talk \| contribs)		Latest revision as of 20:08, 5 March 2013 (edit) (undo) Purplebackpack89 (Talk \| contribs)
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	:I think it should be enough if you enter it as a variant in [[User:AutoFormat/Headers]]. -- [[User:Liliana-60\|Liliana]] [[User talk:Liliana-60\|•]] 09:10, 17 February 2013 (UTC)		:I think it should be enough if you enter it as a variant in [[User:AutoFormat/Headers]]. -- [[User:Liliana-60\|Liliana]] [[User talk:Liliana-60\|•]] 09:10, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
	::Sorry, I forgot about that page. Thanks! —[[User:Metaknowledge\|Μετάknowledge]]<small><sup>''[[User talk:Metaknowledge\|discuss]]/[[Special:Contributions/Metaknowledge\|deeds]]''</sup></small> 15:50, 17 February 2013 (UTC)		::Sorry, I forgot about that page. Thanks! —[[User:Metaknowledge\|Μετάknowledge]]<small><sup>''[[User talk:Metaknowledge\|discuss]]/[[Special:Contributions/Metaknowledge\|deeds]]''</sup></small> 15:50, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
		+
		+	== "The next time I trip up" ==
		+
		+	If Mglovesfun blocks me, I WILL request unblock on the grounds that he has a vendetta on me, and I will probably follow that with a desysop request on similar grounds (i.e. personal vendetta clouding his judgment). I am tired of being criticized for not toeing the line on the rampant deletionism here. I am perfectly entitled to vote "keep" wherever and whenever I so choose; and usually I give a good reason as to why [[User:Purplebackpack89\|<font color="purple">Purplebackpack89</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:Purplebackpack89#top\|<font color="FFAB00">(Notes Taken)</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Purplebackpack89\|<font color="FFAB00">(Locker)</font>]]</sup> 20:08, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 20:08, 5 March 2013

/archive up to mid-March 2011
/archive2 up to fall 2012

[edit] Resorted/rebalanced translations

Um, does KassadBot ever alphabetize translations? My impression is that all it does is move {{trans-mid}}. It would be useful when for example, converting Bosnian and Croatian to Serbo-Croatian if KassadBot could alphabetize them and tag if there is already a Serbo-Croatian translation that there is a 'duplicate language'. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:19, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Why yes, it does, or at least, it should. -- Liliana • 16:23, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it does that. I've been cleaning those up for years now. See Category:Entries with translation table format problems. DCDuring TALK 20:16, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

No it doesn't; it's tagging the duplicate translations but not alphabetizing. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:17, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Generally, it seems to, but some problems seem to stop it. I can't channel Ullmann. DCDuring TALK 23:36, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Not if there are problems, yes, but if there are no problems, then yes -- Liliana • 07:06, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

[edit] {{rfc-level|Inflection at L4+ not in L3 POS section|lang=egy}}

Hi Liliana-60,
Kassadbot has been leaving the message "{{rfc-level|Inflection at L4+ not in L3 POS section|lang=egy}}" on various Egyptian pages (Most recently mjw). I'm not sure entirely what it means (surely the inflection information, being specific to the PoS ought to be within that PoS's section, not at the same level?), and was wondering if you might be able to explain what it means?
Best Regards
Furius (talk) 21:28, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

I think KassadBot is confused because it is technically not inside a part of speech section, it's inside an "Alternative forms" section, and alternative forms are supposed to go above the part of speech. - -sche (discuss) 21:35, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Ah! I understand that now. Which means that the alternate forms really do need to go under "Usage notes," or Kassadbot will keep calling people in to 'fix' them? Furius (talk) 02:34, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

KassadBot is actually O.K. with "Alternative forms" being inside the part-of-speech section (it happens a lot in East Asian languages, because of the epic fail that is Hanzi), but then it needs to be at the appropriate header level: if Noun is at L3 (===Noun===), then an Alternative forms inside it would have be at L4 (====Alternative forms====). That said, in the specific case of Egyptian entries like [[mjw]], I think the problem is that the "Alternative forms" header is not actually being used for "alternative forms" in the Wiktionary sense of that term. (I think I've mentioned this to you before.) —Ruakh_TALK 02:38, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

You have indeed. I don't think I really understood that at the time - There have been a lot of things to understand. I think that I am slowly getting the hang of some of them. I think it is best to transition the things listed in the Egyptian entries as alternative forms into the usage notes section. I'll try to change the entries already created as Kassadbot flags them. Furius (talk) 03:00, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

[edit] empty sections

Merely out of curiosity, does KassadBot catch and remove empty sections? - -sche (discuss) 06:25, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

I think not? Unsure. -- Liliana • 12:12, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Could you persuade KassadBot to accept Template:only-in (and not tag it as having "no language"), please? I'm mass-converting {{only in}} to {{only-in}} and simplifying the link syntax at the same time, because that's the easiest way of merging them (per RFM) that I can think of (rather than try to temporarily make {{only in}} handle {{only-in}}'s simplified structure), so even if we ultimately decide we like the name {{only in}} better, there will be a lot of {{only-in}}s for a while. I've blocked KassadBot for now lest it flag all the entries I'm changing, plus the ones Robin has updated manually. - -sche (discuss) 17:57, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Alternatively, we could always decide that we wanted all the only-in/only_in entries to have language headers, like a select few of them which are on pages with other languages already do (e.g. abnodate). - -sche (discuss) 17:59, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Much smaller issue; could the bot use {{head}} instead of {{infl}}? Thank you. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:06, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

[edit] primitivization

Regarding this demand, so you would keep an entry deleted, even though it is clearly verifiable, just to force another editor to write up some cites? I do not think it is acceptable to demand work from volunteers on any particular item. I work on what I find interesting, not what someone else wants to assign to me. Spinning Spark 10:56, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Do you know the default delete message for RFV-failed entries? It says "Failed WT:RFV, do not re-enter without valid citations" (emphasis by me). So if you want an entry that previously failed RFV back, you must supply evidence of use. Otherwise, anyone can claim that an entry is verifiable based on a few google hits. We all know how much google is worth in that regard. -- Liliana • 11:14, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

I noticed that the bot has stopped on [[dog]], which also seems to be quite slow-loading. Is the [[water]] problem spreading, thereby showing that [[water]] is indeed a miner's canary? DCDuring TALK 15:40, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

I am guessing it's related to this edit. While there is nothing wrong with it, it did make the page slower. -- Liliana • 16:26, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

There's something wrong with the whole test-for-the-existence-of-a-template kludge, when it is so widely deployed. Maybe we should put a stop to further deployment of {{t}} until there is a less resource-intensive replacement. {{t}} is being mass-added. DCDuring TALK 17:17, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Possibly. The problem seems to spread. Now it's box that's causing it. -- Liliana • 17:36, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Does adding "sc=" help? DCDuring TALK 17:53, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

It does; it skips one check to the script subpage of the respective language code (like Template:en/script). -- Liliana • 17:57, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Do {{term}} and {{l}} have the same lookup tests? Even if lang=en? For English the script is 'Latn'? Does adding "sc=Latn" work even without lang=en? DCDuring TALK 18:26, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

This seems so dumb. DCDuring TALK 18:27, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

One possible way to speed up {{t}} is to remove the switch that checks whether the gender is valid. —CodeCa t 18:30, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Regardless of the speed issue, this is a good idea. Right now, you can't use templates like {{impf.}} inside {{t}}, and that kind of sucks. -- Liliana • 09:24, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Your edit to the gender handling in {{t}} and the others causes translations that have a gender of "d" (incorrectly, obviously) to be nominated for deletion. Examples: queen bee, leak. --Wiki Tiki 89 14:19, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Haha, that's funny. No seriously, those occurences should be fixed. They didn't work anyway. -- Liliana • 14:41, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Should be fixed. Tell me if there's other problems. -- Liliana • 14:47, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

I think you should somehow protect against things like that because at the moment you can insert any template's name into the gender parameter and cause destructive behavior. --Wiki Tiki 89 15:06, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

You can do that even without {{t}} by just inserting a template anywhere on the page. I don't see the difference. -- Liliana • 15:08, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree, but you should check for pre-existing instances of {{t}} (and friends) that have unexpected values. (Actually, I don't remember — do you know how to analyze the database-dumps? If not, let me know. I should have time tonight to generate a TODO-list.) —Ruakh_TALK 15:27, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

I have no idea how to weed through database dumps, sorry. -- Liliana • 15:34, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

O.K., done. You broke about seven hundred pages; see Wiktionary:Todo/Weird translations templates. (And note that I could have generated this list just as easily before you edited those templates; so if you'd bothered to discuss this beforehand, we could have prevented any breakage from happening at all.) —Ruakh_TALK 01:27, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Only seven hundred pages? What a shame. Next time, I should try harder.
In all seriousness, I'll get around to fixing the uses as soon as possible. Not all of them seem to be a problem, the script probably had some issues with handling the arbitrary argument sorting on some pages. -- Liliana • 11:05, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Re: "Not all of them seem to be a problem": Right. Basically I filtered out enough common non-broken ways that {{t}} is called, until what was left was mostly the newly-broken uses that we're interested in. (That's why I wrote "about seven hundred pages" instead of giving an exact number.) —Ruakh_TALK 12:44, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

[edit] Two bot-related items

In this change the bot inserted lang=mul. But at an RFDO, I was told that there could not be such a request category. Do with this information what you will.

Also the bot stopped a couple of days ago, at [[man]] this time, also a slow-loading entry. Any common elements among the entries that stop it? DCDuring TALK 21:35, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

As you can see in the version history I've tried poking around the entry, to see what the real culprit is, but so far I haven't been successful in any way. -- Liliana • 05:32, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

It is especially intriguing that head is much larger, but has a smaller payload on the server. Maybe I should conduct some tests in userspace... -- Liliana • 10:12, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

AF hasn't run in a week. Can't it be made to skip entries known to be problems for it? DCDuring TALK 14:23, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Such a list would probably contain most Wiktionary entries, defeating the purpose of the bot in the first place. -- Liliana • 21:22, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

If the problem is that bad how can it be fixed? Is the main problem with translation tables or with other features?

It hasn't run for 10 days now. We also havent had a run of those of our special pages that are not disabled. I hope that entropy does not take over. DCDuring TALK 13:18, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Added by a new user. Doesn't use the right templates and needs some cleanup, can you have a look? —CodeCa t 18:02, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Really, {{de-noun-f}} should not redirect to an inflection table, it will only cause errors like this. -- Liliana • 18:05, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

You could always rename it? —CodeCa t 18:40, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

... it's more than just one template. -- Liliana • 18:44, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

I've renamed the templates now, but I left redirects so nothing has been broken. The redirects should probably be orphaned and deleted, but at least now everything has a better name. —CodeCa t 14:56, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

[edit] Will Kassadbot ever run again?

It hasn't run since November 16. Coupled with other maintenance functions that don't work, like the special pages which only run when someone at WM remembers to run them, and dwindling time from our technically expert contributors, this makes me lose faith that we can improve Wiktionary at a rate faster than it lapses into disorder. Please run it on the kinds of entries it can handle until a more general solution is found. DCDuring TALK 03:34, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Hopefully this will renew action on {{l}} and on {{list}}. - -sche (discuss) 05:50, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Try running KassadBot on [[a]] now that I've made changes to the entry ([1]). I find that I can actually edit the entry normally now, whereas previously the edit window would stay up for about half a minute after I pressed "save", whereupon a time-out page would come up, and about half a minute after I could see, upon closing the time-out page and opening a new window, that my edit had succeeded. - -sche (discuss) 07:32, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

First of all I need to get it unstuck from the page it's currently stuck at. -- Liliana • 07:35, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Hooray! This verifies that removing that terrible black hole which is {{list}} helps people and bots alike. - -sche (discuss) 21:14, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

You should rather check all the other pages that use {{list}}. They were all blacklisted by me. I removed the blacklist and the bot went through most of them without a problem. (I'm still investigating the underlying issue though.) -- Liliana • 21:15, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

[edit] t-simple

Because currently the page calls hundreds of language templates, which is probably slowing down the page quite a bit, and avoiding that is kind of the whole point of t-simple, if I understand correctly. --Yair rand (talk) 18:52, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

See Template_talk:t#xs_again for my reasoning on why xs= is a bad idea. -- Liliana • 18:54, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Yeesh. Don't you think it's a bit silly to attribute every action of Ruakh's that you don't agree with to a personal vendetta against you? Comments like this are not productive. --Yair rand (talk) 19:18, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Not in the slightest. I can't see any benefits he would gain in preventing any changes to "his" templates other than this. -- Liliana • 20:03, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

You've recently changed {{l|lv}} to {{l-self|lv}} in the Latvian template {{lv-decl-noun-table}}. It seems that the only advantage is that links to the same page are black rather than blue; but I personally don't find this appealing; I actually like the all-blue tables better. Is this the result of some policy change, or would it be OK if I returned to the status quo ante? --Pereru (talk) 19:10, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Actually, it makes it consistent with regular [[links]], when they link to the same page, they are black. I personally find it extremely irritating when there's a link that just links to itself. As for the template, you'd better ask User:CodeCat, who's recently introduced it to many templates. -- Liliana • 19:29, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

I created the template pretty much for the reason Liliana stated. It's useful to have some kind of indication that the linked-to form is actually on the same page, so that you don't think it's a real link and try to click on it. —CodeCa t 20:09, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

In this case, why not make it a regular feature of {{l}}, rather than creating a new template? I assume people would feel the same way about blue links that link to themselves no matter where they happened to be on a page? --Pereru (talk) 20:45, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Because it is not always desirable to do this. {{l}} should be used when linking to another language on the same page. As a general rule I only include {{l-self}} in inflection tables and lists, which could occasionally contain a link to the same language on the same page. In all other cases I use {{l}}. —CodeCa t 21:02, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

[edit] DejaVu

Hallo Liliana, du sagtest am 26. November: "DejaVu is dead?"... Ist DejaVu noch toter als sonst, und mir hat keiner etwas davon gesagt? Oder meintest du die Tatsache, dass ich dort nichts mehr mache (zumindest zur Zeit)? Und falls DejaVu nicht wieder aufersteht: gibt's irgendwo Ersatz, falls jemand mal wieder beitragen will? --MaEr (talk) 13:21, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Naja, seit 2011 hat sich da nichts mehr getan, und das Subversion von denen ist schon lange tot. Ich könnte mich zwar täuschen, aber sehr gut sieht das nicht aus. -- Liliana • 13:35, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

[edit] A very peculiar edit

What do you think happened in this diff? Granted, the {{subst:hww}}: {{tø|hww|pojniam}} shouldn't have been there (the editor responsible for that has since been permablocked), but the end result is fascinatingly random and bizarre. Chuck Entz (talk) 09:51, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

My guess is that it only reads the first three letters and hence substitutes {{sub}}. Why, I don't know. -- Liliana • 10:38, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

[edit] Particles and participles

Grüß dich Liliana, please teach KassadBot that there's a difference between particles and participles. Danke und frohe Weihnachten! —An gr 14:35, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi. Could you look for the proper spellings of Rutul and Lak words in կաղամախ (kałamax)? --Vahag (talk) 12:38, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

[edit] Rencong

Frohes neues Jahr, Liliana! Your input on WT:RFDO#Template:Renc would be helpful... it's not a valid script code, but it represents a script which is in Unicode and which we could theoretically have entries or a translation of [[water]] in. - -sche (discuss) 04:42, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Hello. This is a message to inform you that the options in this vote were modified after you cast your vote, and it is now possible to oppose a certain favicon. Your input is welcome in my honest attempts to have this vote best convey the community's wishes and, of course, to avoid allegations of holding a fraudulent vote. Thanks —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 02:59, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

[edit] Nonstandard header 'Variants'

Could you please get KassadBot to replace 'Variants' with 'Alternative forms'? Thanks —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 05:11, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

I think it should be enough if you enter it as a variant in User:AutoFormat/Headers. -- Liliana • 09:10, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot about that page. Thanks! —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 15:50, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

[edit] "The next time I trip up"

If Mglovesfun blocks me, I WILL request unblock on the grounds that he has a vendetta on me, and I will probably follow that with a desysop request on similar grounds (i.e. personal vendetta clouding his judgment). I am tired of being criticized for not toeing the line on the rampant deletionism here. I am perfectly entitled to vote "keep" wherever and whenever I so choose; and usually I give a good reason as to why Purplebackpack89 ^{(Notes Taken) (Locker)} 20:08, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

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Tuesday, March 5, 2013

Wiktionary - Recent changes [en]: User talk:Liliana-60