| Wiktionary:Beer parlour Nov 2nd 2011, 23:32 Gheg Albanian: | ← Older revision | Revision as of 23:32, 2 November 2011 | | Line 1,807: | Line 1,807: | | | :: I want to point out that Tosk is not synonymous with standard Albanian, but standard Albanian is based on the Tosk dialect. I'm not really familiar at all with Arvanitika or Arberashja, so I won't comment on whether they should nest in translation tables, but if Tosk and Gheg alternatives exist, those varieties can follow whatever is used in standard Albanian with {{temp|qualifier}}. L2 for Gheg and Tosk should both be ==Albanian==. | | :: I want to point out that Tosk is not synonymous with standard Albanian, but standard Albanian is based on the Tosk dialect. I'm not really familiar at all with Arvanitika or Arberashja, so I won't comment on whether they should nest in translation tables, but if Tosk and Gheg alternatives exist, those varieties can follow whatever is used in standard Albanian with {{temp|qualifier}}. L2 for Gheg and Tosk should both be ==Albanian==. | | | :: Like Anatoli suggested, people from Tirana and Pristina will understand each other fine. Maybe not perfectly, but certainly as well as someone from Valley Forge and Edinburgh. — <font face="Lucida console"><small>['''[[User:Dick Laurent|Ric]]''' [[User talk:Dick Laurent|Laurent]]]</small></font> — 23:01, 2 November 2011 (UTC) | | :: Like Anatoli suggested, people from Tirana and Pristina will understand each other fine. Maybe not perfectly, but certainly as well as someone from Valley Forge and Edinburgh. — <font face="Lucida console"><small>['''[[User:Dick Laurent|Ric]]''' [[User talk:Dick Laurent|Laurent]]]</small></font> — 23:01, 2 November 2011 (UTC) | | − | :::I'm not aware of Anatoli having said that. Because Gheg speakers also come into contact with the Standard (Tosk), they learn to understand it. This is passive bilingualism, not mutual intelligibility. (Cf. in former Czechoslovakia speakers of Czech and Slovak could communicate with each other in their own native language, not because Czech and Slovak are mutually intelligible, but because each was a passive speaker of the other. The young generation of today has not (passively) learned the other's language and they have trouble talking to each other). (unsigned by Yair rand) | + | :::I'm not aware of Anatoli having said that. Because Gheg speakers also come into contact with the Standard (Tosk), they learn to understand it. This is passive bilingualism, not mutual intelligibility. (Cf. in former Czechoslovakia speakers of Czech and Slovak could communicate with each other in their own native language, not because Czech and Slovak are mutually intelligible, but because each was a passive speaker of the other. The young generation of today has not (passively) learned the other's language and they have trouble talking to each other). {{unsigned|JorisvS}} | | | | | | | | ::::This is a digress but mutual intelligibility is a tricky thing. Languages can be extremely close but still hard to understand without some exposure. What makes languages mutually intelligible is understanding the pronunciation, knowing how sounds change. Even very short exposure to a similar language can open these secrets. Czech and Slovak, like Russian/Ukrainian/Belarusian are extremely mutually intelligible, Slavic languages have up to 60% of common vocabulary and up to 80% or more in closer languages but pronunciation and other factors confuse people who never heard a language. Of course, nationalists will disagree and will highlight differences, rather than making some effort to understand. --[[User:Atitarev|Anatoli]] 23:28, 2 November 2011 (UTC) | | ::::This is a digress but mutual intelligibility is a tricky thing. Languages can be extremely close but still hard to understand without some exposure. What makes languages mutually intelligible is understanding the pronunciation, knowing how sounds change. Even very short exposure to a similar language can open these secrets. Czech and Slovak, like Russian/Ukrainian/Belarusian are extremely mutually intelligible, Slavic languages have up to 60% of common vocabulary and up to 80% or more in closer languages but pronunciation and other factors confuse people who never heard a language. Of course, nationalists will disagree and will highlight differences, rather than making some effort to understand. --[[User:Atitarev|Anatoli]] 23:28, 2 November 2011 (UTC) | | |
