| Module talk:ru-verb Apr 11th 2013, 23:42 | | | | Line 12: | Line 12: | | | ::::I can't think of many verbs like [[победить]]. Missing inflected forms or forms that sound awkward is a Russian feature, he-he, and some people complain about this and talk jokingly about introduction of the form "побежду", that's why there are hits. Other just discuss this problem and ask experts how to say "I'll win." | | ::::I can't think of many verbs like [[победить]]. Missing inflected forms or forms that sound awkward is a Russian feature, he-he, and some people complain about this and talk jokingly about introduction of the form "побежду", that's why there are hits. Other just discuss this problem and ask experts how to say "I'll win." | | | ::::Because of [[победить]] and impersonal verbs I thought that some forms could be made optional, so that we don't have to rework it later. | | ::::Because of [[победить]] and impersonal verbs I thought that some forms could be made optional, so that we don't have to rework it later. | | | + | ::::: Because such verbs are so rare, I think the approach I outlined above would make things easier for us. Focus on the "majority" cases, and deal with rarer cases later once we have everything working. I have used this approach when converting Dutch and Catalan verbs to Lua and it seems to work. For Dutch it is actually quite easy: there are strong, weak, weak-cht and irregular verbs, where the irregular verbs just basically have their own special conjugation for them alone. So the "exceptions" have their own separate method, different from the normal verbs. {{User:CodeCat/signature}} 23:42, 11 April 2013 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 23:42, 11 April 2013 [edit] Suggested changes Good job! Can all (or most) parameters be made optional and wikified (without accents and to allow entry creation)? For optional forms (the translit function shouldn't be called, to avoid ()). The verb победить doesn't have 1st person singular future (!), so, to say "I'll win" one should rephrase to something like "я бу́ду победи́телем" (ja búdu pobedítelem). The impersonal verbs will have a few forms missing, e.g. ru:смеркаться (smerkátʹsja) (to grow dark, to get dusky). Please let me know if it's too much or if you have questions. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 22:33, 11 April 2013 (UTC) - I would like to start by applying this template to all verbs where it can be used, and skip any verbs like победить where it doesn't. But I wonder whether it is really necessary to leave out forms that are rarely used, but not strictly wrong. In English for example, it's not wrong to say "we rained down on them" even though rain is usually impersonal. I wouldn't be surprised if Russian verbs also have such poetic uses. And it would simplify it a lot if we could just list those forms even if almost nobody ever uses them. I mean, just because almost nobody says "my space shuttle is tasty" doesn't mean it's not valid English. :) I am not sure what you mean with making the parameters optional. If they're all optional, how would the module know what to do? —CodeCat 22:42, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
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- For победить there really is no 1st person singular future. People make fun of this by saying "я победю́/побежду́" but that's not valid Russian. For "смеркаться" the missing forms can sound weird (e.g. я смеркаюсь, ты смеркаешься) but can perhaps be considered valid in some circumstances. OK, for impersonal verbs I could add usage notes.
- Re: "optional and how would the module know what to do" A calling template would just pass nothing as a parameter and the module would display an em dash. --Anatoli (обсудить/вклад) 23:09, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
- What would be the use of a table full of dashes, though? Surely at least the stem is necessary to make anything useful appear? As for победить... are there many verbs like this? If not, we can just treat them as irregular. I do find over 40 thousands results on Google for побежду, and победю 168 thousand, but I don't know the context of those words so maybe they are not actually uses of this verb at all. —CodeCat 23:20, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
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- I can't think of many verbs like победить. Missing inflected forms or forms that sound awkward is a Russian feature, he-he, and some people complain about this and talk jokingly about introduction of the form "побежду", that's why there are hits. Other just discuss this problem and ask experts how to say "I'll win."
- Because of победить and impersonal verbs I thought that some forms could be made optional, so that we don't have to rework it later.
- Because such verbs are so rare, I think the approach I outlined above would make things easier for us. Focus on the "majority" cases, and deal with rarer cases later once we have everything working. I have used this approach when converting Dutch and Catalan verbs to Lua and it seems to work. For Dutch it is actually quite easy: there are strong, weak, weak-cht and irregular verbs, where the irregular verbs just basically have their own special conjugation for them alone. So the "exceptions" have their own separate method, different from the normal verbs. —CodeCat 23:42, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
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